3 questions for 'Our Flag Means Death' creator David Jenkins about his fan-favorite 'gay pirate show'
"Whatever you call it, as long as you're celebrating it and it makes you feel seen, then it's such an honor," Jenkins says of the hit Max series.
Avast ye, Monkey D. Luffy! Our Flag Means Death creator David Jenkins has arrrr-rated words for you and the rest of the One Piece-hunting crew that's headlining Netflix's blockbuster live-action version of the long-running Japanese manga and anime series. "We got there first," Jenkins boasts to Yahoo Entertainment about his own fan-favorite pirate series, now entering its second season on Max. "One Piece is jumping on our bandwagon!"
Before you One Piecers send Jenkins some poisoned Devil Fruit, be aware that he's only joking. "There's room for plenty of pirate shows," the writer says with a smile. "It's funny — I was never into pirate stuff before this series. I was like, 'Only 8-year-olds like pirates!' But now I love it when I see people dressed up as characters from our show. It makes me so happy that it makes people feel cool."
It helps, of course, that Jenkins can lay claim to having two of the coolest contemporary comic minds aboard Our Flag Means Death. Thor: Ragnarok mastermind Taika Waititi is both an executive producer and star of the series, playing legendary 18th century plunderer Edward Teach, aka Blackbeard, while Flight of the Conchords scene-stealer Rhys Darby portrays another famed seafarer Stede Bonnet, aka the Gentleman Pirate. In real life, the duo terrorized the Caribbean for roughly a year until Bonnet met the Grim Reaper at the end of a noose in 1718.
But nothing so grim happens in Our Flag Means Death. Instead, Jenkins's series offers a fractured fairy-tale version of a pirate's life that makes room for plenty of romance... especially between Stede and Edward. It's no accident that the series has become colloquially known as "the gay pirate show" among its passionate fanbase since its March 2022 premiere. That's an identity that Jenkins is proud to embrace.
"To me, it's just a pirate show, but if you want to call it the 'gay pirate show' or 'the pirate rom-com,' I love it," he says. "Whatever you call it, as long as you're celebrating it and it makes you feel seen, then it's such an honor."
As Blackbeard and the Gentleman Pirate set sail to continue their love story in Season 2, we asked Jenkins three questions about overseeing one of the streaming era's most viral hits.
1. Rhys Darby and Taika Waititi aren't gay in real life — did you have any concerns about casting them in the series amid the ongoing debate over straight actors playing gay characters?
It's definitely something we talked about going into the show. I'm not gay, either, but one of the things we discussed was: "What does the writers' room look like?" And "Are we listening to them?" So I have to credit our writer's room, because they are so diverse and they serve us wonderfully.
The Stead and Blackbeard relationship has always been the core of why I wanted to make the show. Historically, it's clear that these guys seem like they were together [as a couple], but the descriptions of it [at the time] made it seem like they were just hanging out. In making the series, we're able to zero in on those little micro-moments of "they're growing closer!" And the chemistry between Taika and Rhys is is really lovely. They've known each for 20 years now, so that chemistry is very real. When you see them playing a scene together, it's excites all of us and it makes us realize, "I want to see these two people fall in love."
Also, we don't know what spectrum of queerness Stead and Blackbeard fall on as characters. Do they see themselves as gay? Does it matter? You'd have to ask Rhys and Taika how they're playing it. But I think one of the values of the show is that it's less about their individual queer identity and more about their love for each other. I think we can tell these stories, because we all know what it feels like to want someone and be wanted back, and allow ourselves to be vulnerable and scared of being rejected. As long as that's at the core of the show, that's what's gratifying.
2. You've said that you have a three-season arc in mind. Do you think you'll get to tell it?
That's way above my pay grade. If Max feels like they'd like us to hang around and would be kind enough to grace us with a third season, that'd be fantastic. And if not, I think we leave Season 2 in a place that people will be happy with. Nobody owes us a third season — the fact that we go to make two of these is a joy. I mean, we got to make two seasons of a weird pirate show where we put on costumes on played on these sets!
But it was clear to me that this story could only be three seasons, and I was shocked that Taika wanted to do it, because I know he's so busy. What was important for me was to present a very emotionally young couple in the first season and what happens to them, followed by a more mature couple in Season 2 who are learning to ask: "Are we a thing? What do we want to be?"
And then the third season would be about what happens when the couple is a little bit older and maybe they try to run a business together. How does that go? How do they keep the relationship together? Seeing stuff like that in a fantasy setting between these two characters would be great, because there's a lot of naturalistic stories you can do in this comedy world. I want to see them hang onto each other as they movie into a different phase of their lives.
3. Our Flag Means Death has one of the most dedicated fanbases around and they're also extremely online. Do you and the writers ever worry that you're giving them what they want a little too much?
Well, we're all fans of the show in the writers' room, too, so there's not much of a difference. It's funny when people call things "fanfic" because it's all just "fic"! If you're sitting there writing pages, it's fic. So it doesn't feel like we're looking at things online and going, "What will the fans like?" We know what we like in the room and if there's a development we can hit on that we're excited about, we all kind of sit up. We like the world that we're building.
In the course of making the show, I've met fans individually and I think the overwhelming thing I've come away with is that when somebody tells you that they now have the language for themselves that they otherwise never would have had, it's such a great feeling. Or they say that they can watch the show with their parents and enjoy it. That's a credit to our non-binary writers and performers that are able to put that on camera in a way that made somebody feel safe. I almost don't know how to respond to it. I mean, the only response is, "Thank you." But there's no greater compliment than that.
Our Flag Means Death is currently streaming on Max.
