Todd Rundgren on the worst Beatles album and whether Meat Loaf was a parody of Springsteen
Todd Rundgren is, at heart, an individualist — a word he’s used to title both an album (1995’s “The Individualist,” released as TR-i) and a memoir consisting of 183 one-page chapters ("The Individualist: Digressions, Dreams & Dissertations”).
The man has been confounding expectations since the early ‘70s.
That’s when he followed “Something/Anything?,” a masterstroke of soulful pop perfection that became his mainstream breakthrough on the strength of two amazing hits (“I Saw the Light” and Rundgren’s first attempt at writing songs, “Hello It’s Me”) with the madcap experimentation of “A Wizard, A True Star,” an album-length rejection of what the man had come to view as formulaic pop songs.
We caught up with Rundgren via Zoom to talk about his life in music and the tour that brings him back to the Celebrity Theatre on Wednesday, June 19.
Todd Rundgren says his setlist is 'mostly fan favorites and deep cuts'
What can you tell me about the tour?
I don’t have a new album out so I’m not promoting that. For the past several years, I haven’t really done much touring under my own banner. I was out with Daryl Hall for about a year and a half. I was doing Beatles tributes, David Bowie tributes and that sort of thing. And my own fans didn’t get a whole lot of me. They would get me in some other context.
So I thought now that I have a break from those other things, even though I don’t have new music to promote, I want to do something for the fans since they’ve waited a long time. It’s mostly fan favorites and deep cuts. Of course, everyone knows I don’t have a long list of hit records anyway. If it was a greatest hits show, it would be over in 20 minutes.
But we’ve been doing a show now for about six weeks, and the fans seem happy with the combination. We’ve been doing much better than I expected. Having been off the road for such a long time, you think maybe when you come back, it takes a while for people to become aware that you’re still doing it (laughs). But we’ve been selling out places that I’ve never played before.
Todd Rundgren knows some 'fans' are only there to hear 'Hello It’s Me'
Why is it called the Me/We Tour?
The next time I do a record, that’ll be the title of it. And I didn’t know how to describe the show otherwise, since it’s a combination of odd material, not necessarily with a theme beyond the fact that these are songs that communicate something to the audience.
I have some fans…. Well, I use the word fans dubiously. They’re a fan of a song. And a lot of them have been culled out over the years because I might do a show and never play “Hello It’s Me.” And they say, “Well, screw him. I’m never buying another ticket to his show.” (laughs). Then there are the people who want to hear “Bang the Drum All Day” and if they don’t hear that, they’ll never be satisfied.
So I should forewarn those people that if you came to hear just one particular song, that’s not the point of the show.
Do you think your relationship with “Hello It’s Me” is shaped in part by the fact that you do have people coming to your shows who only care about that song? Because I know you’re not the biggest fan of that song.
Well, it’s not that I dislike the song. It’s the first song I ever wrote. So there’s an albatross quality to it, where some people completely associate everything you did with the very first thing you wrote and they kind of discount everything else after that. I don’t dislike the song. I just wish people would use it more as a gateway to the other things I do, as opposed to just Todd Rundgren equals “Hello It’s Me”
Rundgren wouldn't be what he is today without 'Something/Anything?'
What about the album “Something/Anything?” as a whole. How do you feel about that at this point?
Well, I wouldn’t be what I am today without “Something/Anything?” (laughs) Because it did open the world up to me as an artist. I was doing fine as a record producer before that and could’ve continued and just produced records. But I somehow accidentally fell into a solo career.
And I didn’t think of myself primarily as a pop performer or someone who was striving to get to the top of the charts and all that other sort of stuff, because I didn’t have the same economic pressure that most other artists had to simply succeed. I was producing records and that was my financial underpinning. And when I made my own records, I just kind of did whatever I felt like.
So, in that sense, “Something/Anything?” was a happy accident, but it did open a lot of doors for me. The next thing I did was essentially close those doors (laughs). Because I recorded “A Wizard, A True Star” and that was a completely different kind of record that more signified what my career would be like after that.
Todd Rundgren on why kids these days prefer 'A Wizard, A True Star'
I take it you’re a bigger fan of that one?
Well, it isn’t just me. It seems like when younger generations go back and listen to the music, the album that they really latch onto is “A Wizard, A True Star.” It’s not “Something/Anything?” I mean, they enjoy “Something/Anything?” fine, but one love song after another (laughs), it can wear on ya, you know?
As generations move along, they have a different sensibility but often they get bored with the music of their own generation, so they go back and listen to music from years and years ago. That’s why the Beatles still have teenage fans.
Speaking of the Beatles, the Guardian said “A Wizard, A True Star” was “harmonically richer and more ambitiously deranged” than “The White Album.”
Well, you know, that’s not a comparison I would make because I thought “The White Album” was the Beatles’ worst record. (laughs) You can say it’s not as bad as you thought it was the first time you heard it, but it still ranks down there with their worst records. Some people would argue that “Magical Mystery Tour” is the worst. But there were at least some memorable things off of it.
Todd Rundgren on how 'Space Force' collaborations came to be
Your last album, “Space Force,” was you collaborating with a different artist on each track, which I guess kind of grew out of the “White Knight” record?
“White Knight” was kind of halfway there in terms of collaboration because I wrote most of the material. There were a couple of true collaborations, but a lot of the artists, I just wanted to work with them and I wrote something for them. When I got to “Space Force,” I realized I had to incorporate more musical ideas. It would be essentially more fully collaborative if I wasn’t just writing for them but we were more or less writing together.
Was that a good experience?
Well, it also happened during COVID. So it was a bit of stop and start. Not everyone had their own home studio so many of the collaborations got delayed until people could finally get into a studio environment.
It should’ve come out probably at least a year earlier than it did, but as soon as I delivered the album, Adele announced a surprise record and there was no more vinyl left in the world. My label insists on putting out the vinyl version at the same time as every other version, so the record essentially idled for a year.
Man, that Adele. First, she steals the lyrics to “Hello It’s Me,” then she uses all the vinyl.
Yeah, she’s a double-edged sword.
You said “Me/We” is the title of your next release. Have you thought about what type of record that might be?
Yeah. It all starts in here (points to head). So I have thought about it and actually might have gotten it started already but for other projects that have taken up all my attention. It’s not as if I’m in the dark as far as what I want to write about or how I might want it to sound. I just haven’t gotten down to doing it.
Todd Rundgren on producing Grand Funk, XTC and Meat Loaf
You’ve talked about your production a couple times. Are there records you’ve produced that hold a special place for you, that you’re especially proud to have produced?
Well, you know, records are special for various reasons. You might be proud of “We’re An American Band,” the Grand Funk record, because you successfully engineered a transformation for an act that didn’t have a lot of Top 40 hits and was generally panned critically and helped them gain legitimacy and completely redefine what they were to people. So there’s that.
There’s Meat Loaf, where nobody believes in this thing. They can’t find anyone to produce it. After it’s done, they can’t find anyone to release it. And then it turns into this worldwide phenomenon, even though I didn’t believe in it the same way they believed in it.
And then there’s, you know, XTC, where you take a band that is about to essentially drown to death and give them new life and introduce them to a whole new audience. So there are reasons to be proud of those things but pride isn’t a feeling I indulge. It goeth before a fall. I feel like I always have constant room for improvement (laughs) So I’m not gonna let my hubris hold me back.
When you said Meat Loaf wasn’t successful for the reasons you believed in it, what were those reasons?
I thought it was a parody of Bruce Springsteen. And if you listen to it in the right way, you realize it is. It’s Bruce Springsteen in a funhouse mirror.
I would think the fact your tour is doing well is a testament to the fact that you don’t need to pander to the casual fan who’s only there to hear “Hello, It’s Me” or “Bang the Drum All Day.”
Well, my audience does pride itself on the process, I guess. They’re not simple, the records I make. You have to hear them a couple times before they make sense. But that’s a process my fans are familiar with and they kind of enjoy, in a way. It gives them something to talk about with each other.
But also, I’ve always acknowledged that I don’t have a career without my fans. We have a mutual loyalty to each other. And I have an obligation not to sell out just to get a bigger audience.
Todd Rundgren's Phoenix concert
When: 7:30 p.m. Wednesday, June 19.
Where: Celebrity Theatre, 440 N. 32nd St., Phoenix.
Admission: $45-$55.
Details: 602-267-1600, celebritytheatre.com.
Reach the reporter at [email protected]. Follow him on X (formerly Twitter) @EdMasley and facebook.com/ed.masley
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This article originally appeared on Arizona Republic: Todd Rundgren on 'Hello It's Me,' accidental stardom and the Beatles