Opinion: Why are Harris and Trump on so many podcasts? Because they want to win.

The first rules of marketing are simple: Go where your potential customers already are, and make yourself as visible as possible. This can take many forms, depending on what you’re selling — billboards on highways, TV ads, signs in public restrooms, or posts on social media.

Marketing modern political campaigns works the same as selling an album, movie, car or TV show. It’s all about reaching and connecting with the audience that might buy your product, or in this case, candidate.

For presidential campaigns, this means going to places where your key voters are. For Vice President Kamala Harris, that meant appearing on popular podcasts “Call Her Daddy” and “The Breakfast Club.”

Harris appears on 'Call Her Daddy' and 'The Breakfast Club,' Trump on 'The PBD Podcast'

The audience for “Call Her Daddy” — devoted followers are known as the "Daddy Gang" — is 70% women, 76% under the age of 35. The show averages 5 million weekly listeners, and guests like Harris are sure to attract an even larger audience. "The Breakfast Club" primarily attracts people of color, especially Black listeners under the age of 50.

If Harris can motivate these groups to vote in swing states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, she stands a strong chance of winning.

And for once, both sides are doing it. Trump appeared last week on "The PBD Podcast," again questioning Harris’ racial identity. The podcast normally gets a half-million views per episode on its YouTube channel; Trump's visit drew 2 million. In contrast, the Trump-friendly venue FOX & Friends, the top-rated cable morning show where the former president is a frequent guest — most recently, the morning after the Al Smith Dinner in New York City — has around 1.2 million viewers, Nielsen reports.

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For campaigns trying to stretch their dollars, these shows offer a chance to connect with huge audiences, for free. According to Spotify, Call Her Daddy is the second most popular podcast on the platform - behind only “The Joe Rogan Experience.”

Not surprisingly, both Harris and Trump are rumored to be eyeing appearances on “The Joe Rogan Experience.”

Neither candidate has yet appeared on the podcast of Taylor Swift’s boyfriend and NFL player Travis Kelce and his brother Jason, or any other sports-focused podcast but I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened between now and Election Day.

What are Trump and Harris missing?

Some critics point out that neither candidate is doing the traditional interviews we expect during campaign season.

For months, reporters, editors and pundits — and even their presidential rivals — have criticized the campaigns for not doing such interviews. The argument is fair — traditional news media has been, well, the traditional method for candidates to get their messages out.

High-profile interviews on network news stations, and with print journalists and newspaper editorial boards, have long been a rite of passage for presidential candidates. The tough questions, the back-and-forth on the issues of the day, and a high-level probing of important issues have been one way candidates have proven themselves worthy of the highest office in the land.

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From a campaign's point of view, traditional media comes with pitfalls. Journalists hold politicians accountable with tough questions and fact checks, and do their best to not let a lie make it to air or print. Podcast hosts aren’t held to the same standard. Straight news journalists aren't supposed to come to a story with an angle, but a podcast host has no such requirement.

But here’s the reality in 2024: More people listen to podcasts than watch the evening news or read the local paper. About 100 million people listen to podcasts every week, and only 15% of 18-29 year olds reported reading a newspaper in a two-week period. Podcasts offer far more reach than traditional media.

As voters prepare for the 2024 election, so do candidates

As the 2024 election nears, the goal for both campaigns is clear: maximize voter contacts. This is most easily achieved by going to where voters already are: podcasts and radio shows with huge followings that appeal to specific demographics.

The way marketing and political campaigns work has changed dramatically over the last decade, and even over the last six months, and you should expect this trend to continue.

Finding new ways to connect with voters is the name of the game for Harris, Trump and every other candidate on the ballot. The candidates who master these new media platforms will not only shape their campaigns, but may also shape the future of political engagement itself.

There’s a hard truth emerging from this election: Campaigns are no longer won in press conferences — they’re won in the time between ads on your favorite podcast.

Andrea Bitely is the founder and principal of Bitely Communications, a Lansing-based public affairs firm specializing in political, corporate and crisis communications. Submit a letter to the editor at freep.com/letters, and we may publish it online or in print.

This story has been updated to include an additional link.

This article originally appeared on Detroit Free Press: Opinion: Harris, Trump appear on podcasts because voters are there