Why Boris Johnson has a rosy outlook on a Trump election win

NEW YORK — Don’t count Boris Johnson among those current and former European leaders alarmed by the prospect of Donald Trump winning a second term.

The former British prime minister argued in an interview with USA TODAY that Trump’s unpredictability was helpful in rattling despots ? he says Russian President Vladimir Putin probably wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine if Trump had been in the White House in 2022 ? and dismissed the notion that it also rattled allied leaders, perhaps less helpfully.

While he didn’t endorse Trump or Vice President Kamala Harris, Johnson called the final days of their fierce campaign a “magnificent” demonstration of democracy, despite the division and apprehension that has American voters "going bananas."

Johnson, 60, has written a lively 772-page memoir titled “Unleashed,” published by Harper, chronicling his tumultuous tenures as London mayor, British foreign secretary and Conservative prime minister.

Here’s some of what he said in Thursday’s half-hour interview, though it’s hard to convey in words his impersonations of former German chancellor Angela Merkel, French President Emmanuel Macron and others.

Answers have been lightly edited for length and clarity.

Q: We’re just days away from our election. Tell me what you make of our election.

Johnson: Number one, this thing is driving everybody nuts, right? We're here in New York and people are freaking out. They're going bananas about the election. You can tell there's sort of genuine division, apprehension on either side, but there's also something magnificent because nobody knows what's going to happen on Tuesday….

And that's a fantastic thing because Russia, China, loads of places, they have “elections,” in inverted commas, [making quotation marks in the air], but they sure as hell know what the outcome's going to be. So the greatest country on Earth has actually got a living, dynamic democracy where it's genuinely in the hands of the people. And although it's chaotic, although it kind of feels frightening, it's wonderful….

Whatever you say about both candidates, they are fighting for those votes and there's no cheating going on that I can see. They're fighting to persuade people to vote for themselves. And that's it, that's democracy. And Vladimir Putin doesn't do that. He doesn't go out. He doesn't have to do stunts with garbage trucks or make speeches at rallies. Nor does [Chinese President] Xi Jinping.

Q: You were a leader in responding to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Given what Trump has said about Putin and his promise to end the war in a day, do you worry about what he might do on Ukraine if he’s elected?

Johnson: This is my optimistic scenario… When I look at what Trump actually did when he was in office, when I was foreign secretary, and then when I was prime minister, I look at how he handled the Russia file by comparison with the Democrats….

He’s got all these kind of Putin fanboys…and he's got this weird frond of Republicans and journalists and whatever who kind of seem to think that Putin's a standup family guy or whatever the hell they think ? is a great God-loving, God-fearing Christian. It's just total nuts, this stuff.

But in spite of that, he did some very good stuff. He gave the Ukrainians the Javelin missiles, and the Javelins were fantastically effective at plinking those Russian tanks in the battle for Kiev….

I'm just saying that if you look at the actual evidence of what he did, it was actually in sharp contrast to the relative inertia under the previous Democrat administration. And I'm only, as they say, saying. So just wait and see, is what I would say….

Maybe you think I'm wrong, but instinctively I think he's going to be for freedom. And I just don't see how he can allow America and the West to be humiliated because that's what it would be. This is the biggest thing that we've had to face for ? it's the biggest war in Europe for 80 years. If NATO loses it on his watch, that's not going to be a good thing.

Q: So you trust in Trump to not do what he says?

Johnson: One thing that he says that I believe is credible is…I think it is probably true that Putin would not have done it if he'd been in the White House — the ‘22 invasion. I think that feels right to me….

People say that one of the things that worries people is his unpredictability, right? "Oh, he's unpredictable." That's a good thing. It's good dealing internationally, because foreign leaders are a little nervous about (him). All deterrence is based on unpredictability. All deterrence is based on unpredictability, but it's also based on strength.

A: The unpredictability that's helpful with despots and enemies — is it ever disconcerting for allies?

Johnson: There’s so much rubbish talked about this. Let me give you an example, NATO, right?…There was a wonderful summit [in Brussels in May 2017]. I was a foreign secretary. I happened to be sitting right behind him. And I watched him. He had this speech, tore it up, and then he just extemporized this great tirade against everyone. Angela Merkel goggling at him, and Macron was looking sick as a parrot, but it was brilliant.

The point was it was pure U.S. policy… but it was done in a totally unconventional way. And people later reported that summit saying, oh, Trump was threatening to leave NATO. He wasn't anything of the kind. He was simply enunciating standard American policy and standard British policy about getting the allies to spend more and pay more. But he did it in a way that was unconventional.

Q: It alarmed everybody.

.Johnson: It alarmed everybody. But it was good because they did start to pay more.

Q: In your book, you write that there were “surprising upsides” to Trump’s dealings with Syria, with Iran. But this is not the way most European leaders seem to see him.

Johnson: I think it's just a sort of stylistic thing….They think it's kind of uncouth, but I don't, and it is a terrible thing to admit, but I like it, so shoot me. But if he turns up in a garbage truck to satirize his opponent, I like that. That's my kind of level, OK? And maybe it doesn't suit more refined political tastes, but I happen to go with it.

Q: If Trump wins a second term, could that be an omen for Boris Johnson becoming prime minister again?

Johnson: Look, I once said that I had as much chance of becoming prime minister as being reincarnated as an olive or blinded by champagne.

Q: Then you became prime minister,

Johnson: That’s true. That’s true. But I think the truth is, I have a very happy, fortunate life, and you will intuit the answer to your question, Susan, from the pages [holding up his book].

Q: What I intuited from the pages of your book is that you’re not done with politics yet.

Johnson: Really? Oh boy. Oh, brother. Well, I've got a lot of energy, but at the moment, I'm living a life of blameless obscurity in Oxfordshire.

Q: In “Unleashed,” you write that on Election Night in 2016, you suddenly realized your “lizard brain” wanted Trump to win.

Johnson: Well, the mammalian cortex, I think, was with my Foreign Office advisors, who were all for Hillary. I like Hillary Clinton. I think she's a very distinguished, very distinguished public servant and very impressive. And I always enjoyed my conversations with her. I said some terrible things about her, and she was always very gracious and good humorous. So I'm a fan in some ways….

People attack populism, but I kind of feel that our system is a great, great system, and it won't work if you can't actually address what people want you to fix. And unless you address it, really bad guys will capitalize on it. I’m not with the kind of racist or extreme parties….You’ve got to take their wind. You’ve got to take their water and keep society together.

Q: Does your lizard brain want Trump to win this time?

Johnson: My lizard brain is telling me very, very, very, very strongly that this is the decision for the American people.

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Why Boris Johnson has a rosy outlook if Trump reclaims White House